Remember how I said that I have Windows software from 1999-2000 (originally on CD-ROM) that still runs under Win7-Win10-Win11, and how the Linux mob couldn’t care less about backward compatibility? Well, those tards are striking again!

Here’s a MBF (Mass Bug Filing) on Debian which is going to make waves: MBF: Removal of GTK2 from forky.

Hi all,

the Debian GNOME team has a goal of removing gtk+2.0 from Forky before
the release of Debian 14 in 2027.

Debian is not the only distro doing this. A few months ago, Arch Linux
removed GTK 2 from its official (non-AUR) repositories [1]. RHEL 10 was
released earlier in 2025 without GTK 2.

gtk3 was released 15 years ago. Debian has had the stable 3.24 series
[2] for more than 7 years.

Most affected packages [3] had bugs filed against them for this issue
in 2020. Some exceptions include packages that gained a gtk2 dependency
after that date or packages that weren't in Testing then (like openjdk-
8) or for input methods and themes. The list of currently affected
packages is less than 25% as long as the list was in 2020.

One blocker towards finishing this transition is that the graphical
Debian Installer still uses gtk2.

As mentioned in our 2020 MBF [4], besides being unmaintained for years,
GTK 2 does not support either HiDPI or native Wayland.

On behalf of the Debian GNOME team,
Matthias Geiger <werdahias>

PS: not subscribed to -devel, so please CC me for replies

References
----------
[1]
https://lists.archlinux.org/archives/list/arch-dev-public@lists.archlinux.org/thread/2BDHYLEFSYQBDTMUOZT5J6AFTA5M3FO6/
[2] https://blog.gtk.org/2018/06/23/a-gtk-3-update/
[3]
https://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/bts-usertags.cgi?user=pkg-gnome-maintainers%40lists.alioth.debian.org&tag=gtk2
[4] https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2020/04/msg00405.html

He posted this shit on debian-devel, but he’s not subscribed to the list! What the fucking fuck?!

The message goes on by listing the affected packages (about 151), then the same packages grouped by their Debian maintainer.

That part with Debian’s graphical installer requiring GTK2 is hilarious (Debian Live uses Calamares).

Let me comment on a subset of those packages:

  • amsynth – I’m pretty sure some people are still using it.
  • asunder – I’m certain some people are still using it.
  • basilisk2 – I’ve used it decades ago; it would be a shame to ditch it.
  • breeze-gtk – There is no breeze-gtk in Debian. There is a breeze-gtk-theme, built for some reaso to depend on gtk2-engines-pixbuf, whereas the official breeze-gtk supports both GTK 2 and 3 (GTK+ 3.16).
  • cdebconf – I suppose he means cdebconf-gtk, which is the GTK frontend for the Debian Configuration Management System. Ironic, eh?
  • doublecmd – I don’t like it, but it’s quite active. It also has Qt5 and Qt6 versions.
  • fcitx – This one has several front-ends: fcitx-frontend-fbterm, fcitx-frontend-gtk2, fcitx-frontend-gtk3, fcitx-frontend-qt5, fcitx-frontend-qt6. He should have been more specific.
  • fcitx5-gtk – There is no such package in Debian, you fucking retard! Here: fcitx5-frontend-fbterm, fcitx5-frontend-gtk2, fcitx5-frontend-gtk3, fcitx5-frontend-gtk4, fcitx5-frontend-qt5, fcitx5-frontend-qt6. And our Asian friends will be upset.
  • gimp-plugin-registry – Apparently, already banned in Trixie, although it’s still in sid.
  • gkrellm (17 packages) – Horrendous, but it has its fans.
  • gmpc and gmpc-plugins – Abandoned upstream.
  • gnome-paint – Abandoned.
  • gtk2-engines, gtkmm2.4m gtkspell, gnome-themes-extra – Obviously, as long as you ditch GTK2…
  • hexchat – Fozen upstream, but it has some historical value.
  • hime – Once again, this retard has no idea what he’s talking about. Debian includes hime-gtk2-immodule, hime-gtk3-immodule, hime-qt5-immodule.
  • ibus – This idiot is tiresome. He means ibus-gtk, but not ibus-gtk3, ibus-gtk4.
  • jack-keyboard – Last version in 2018. But if it works…
  • lazarus – Lazarus (4.0) has both GTK2 and Qt5 versions.
  • libgnomecanvas – He meant libgnomecanvas2-0.
  • mozc – I suppose he meant fcitx-mozc (not fcitx5-mozc). But mozc-utils-gui is a Qt5 app.
  • mplayer – Is this guy serious? Oh, he meant mplayer-gui!
  • nabi – He upset the Japanese and the Chinese, and now the Koreans!
  • pidgin – Another piece of history some people might still be using!
  • qtcurve – OK, Qt5 styles for GTK2.
  • ripperx – Last build from 2014, but I’ve used it in the past!
  • sane-frontends – No such SANE package in Debian.
  • scim – Not again! I suppose the Chinese should fork Debian. But it’s X11-only.
  • sylpheed – Because everyone uses claws-mail instead, save for a few Japanese.
  • verbiste – I haven’t used it in ages!
  • xournal – A relic from 2016.
  • xsane – A classic one, eh?

More interesting are some of the reactions.

Vincent Lefèvre:

> As mentioned in our 2020 MBF [4], besides being unmaintained for years,
> GTK 2 does not support either HiDPI or native Wayland.

This is simply not true for HiDPI: gkrellm works fine on a HiDPI screen.
It would be bad to remove gkrellm if it cannot be ported to GTK 3 or
higher, while it actually works without any issue, AFAIK. And not
everyone uses Wayland.

Fabio Fantoni:

Hi, there's also Hexchat, which is also no longer maintained but is still quite popular. I use it too. I tried looking at some alternatives, but they didn't seem to be enough. Some channels are migrating to Matrix or have it added, but not all. IRC seems to still be more widely used for open source project channels (it's also used for other things). Someone have any good alternatives to recommend?

Jeremy Bícha:

More specifically, GTK2 apps (including gkrellm) don't seem to be able
support fractional scaling (125% for instance) as is possible with
GTK3 apps in a GNOME on Wayland session. A workaround is to use Font
Scaling with the GNOME Tweaks app. That doesn't work for gkrellm but
it works for only the text in other GTK2 apps.

For reference, this issue was reported upstream in 2020:
https://git.srcbox.net/gkrellm/gkrellm/issues/1

Fractional shit. As if everything should support everything.

A volunteer Debian developer employed by IBM (formerly by Red Hat): 

If maintainers outside the Debian GNOME team wished to maintain GTK2+, I would hope you would not object.

What exactly to maintain if it’s fucking frozen?

A Dane:

> the Debian GNOME team has a goal of removing gtk+2.0 from Forky before
> the release of Debian 14 in 2027.

I applaud the Debian GNOME team to actually "clean up after themselves"
rather than just orphaning the package and let the entirety of the
project deal with it instead.

The smartest guy so far is superkuh (BTW, he’s still using MATE with the old-school 2-panel 3-menu layout and an old theme!):

> Debian GNOME team has a goal of removing gtk+2.0 from Forky before
the release of Debian 14 in 2027.

> Debian is not the only distro doing this.

Other distros like Arch have well supported unofficial repos that still provide the Gtk2 package when it is needed. Debian does not. This is a false equivalence. By removing Gtk 2 support you will be breaking many applications you may never even heard of.

It does not hurt Debian at all to keep packaging Gtk2 and making it available. It is stable software and there have been no changes for decades. Just because some Gtk2 software has bugs doesn't mean Gtk2 is bad or has no uses or users.

> As mentioned in our 2020 MBF [4], besides being unmaintained for years, GTK 2 does not support either HiDPI or native Wayland.

GTK2 does not need to support HiDPI or native Wayland. Just like all the Wayland programs do not support running on xorg or even other wayland compositors not sharing their wayland protocol extensions used. This is not actually a show stopper problem. It is minor and would only apply to those actually using Gtk2 applications and those demographics likely aren't wayland adopters.

On behalf of the Debian Gtk2 users that still exist:

Please don't break people's applications for no reason. If you need someone to take over packaging Gtk2 then make the call for it. If required I will do it as it's quite simple.

- superkuh

p.s. The release of Gtk3 did not replace Gtk2 just like the release of Gtk4 did not replace Gtk3.

The question is:

Will the Debian GNOME team prove some common sense, or will Debian 14+ be irremediably broken? This would break any and all derivatives of Debian!

But “GNOME” and “common sense” are already incompatible. GTK2 (GTK+2) comes from a time when GNOME2 was actually usable…